Fe is succinct. And spells words correctly.
Having an Fe mask is energy conserving.
NeFi never stops adapting to the "other". Everything we feel, we project externally. We hide nothing. However that constant metamorphosis requires significant energy. I don't "see" the other because I "feel" the other. It is exhausting and painful sometimes.
How to describe Fi... Fi is mistlike. It engorphs the other, captures all of their minutia, internalizes them, seeps into all of their nooks and crannies, caresses them, not with the eyes or the hands. With the soul. Fi feels magical. It is boundless. When people talk about an aura, they are talking about Fi. NeFi seeks to become one with the" other" and loose itself it the patterns of the "other". Like drowning in an ocean
From the Fi perspective, using Fe is is fascinating. A new perspective. Please note my below description may be flawed as I "cheat" to taste Fe.
(NeTe is also watching, observing, catagorizing, but quietly, under the radar, as to not quench Fe. It finds Fe daintiness hysterical. NeTe is laughing its metaphorical ass off.)
Fe, when in full bloom, is beautiful waves that gently collide. It plays without words. I don't have to say what I mean as the other Fe user already knows. Unspoken conversations with the eyes.
To share unpleasantness, the voice volume drops, becomes softer, the eyes and face silently convey a problem. The face angles to the right. Fe wants to know about your family. Your thoughts. Your problems. Can it help you, feed you, exhibit benevolence towards you?
However-Fe feels "for you". It doesn't "feel you" like fi does. Thus Fe is not inherently painful.
I cannot emphasize how wonderful this is. To carefor you, but to not suffer for you. Fe actually supresses and quenches Fi. This is delight.
The weirder aspects?
Fe is dainty, nesty, a bit prissy. Things must be a certain way. Fastidiously clean and neat (and since you are conserving energy by not emo groping others with Fi, you actually have energy to clean.). Fe likes nice things. Fe notices tiny details indicative of quality. Fe is a maybe a little snobby.
Fe is a mute button. Fe in full bloom introduces gaps in speech, pauses. Thoughts. must be phrased. In the proper. Sense. Using the right word matters. Fe serves as a translational filter to rework the message to generate the correct contextual message. Fe says I should not post this. It finds it both rude and too honest, far too open. It says too much, and pulls too much attention from the societal conversation, of which it should only be a small piece.
Fe loves formality, civility, ceremony. Every gesture, hand movement, blink, every modification of the mask is a symbol, a sign, important to be correctly performed. Details, delicacy matter. Read CJ Cherryh. She creates entire Fe societies in some stories.
Unpleasant?
Fe finds loud, direct behavior to be uncouth, rude, disruptive, unsettling. Even simple direct statements seem too blunt, too course, thus unsophisticated, even somewhat offensive. Always soften messages...
Fe comes with exclusivity. It reads the faces of Te and Fi users and finds them too open, too childlike, too niave. There is a dance going on around them, amongst them, that they do not perceive. They keep missing steps.... As I said, a bit snobby...
Monday, November 30, 2009
God? Can I play?
I have considered believing in god. Not because I need a god but instead because it is a save place to direct love. You cant o wrong loving an amorphous, non existant entity. It wont leave dirty shoes on the floor or take up living space or food. It also is responsible for its own bills. The downside would include a lack of snuggletime, sex and spooning, however unlimited love may make up for that....
I dunno, maybe I just need another dog.
I dunno, maybe I just need another dog.
Monday, November 23, 2009
Written stutter?
My friend, 9/9 the ENTP, is starting to encounter issues. He does not respond to any emails from anyone except executives. He will be unemployed soon.
I cannot change him, however he is a very interesting person puzzle to observe and try and understand. He is very strange compared to normal ENTPs, however I propose the roots of 9/9 may be found in normal functions overused.
So-a hypothesis:
Fe is like a mute button-a filter. When I use Fe it makes me dainty, fastidious, reserved in speech and gesture. I hate to “waste words”. It takes a lot of time to write things.
9/9 self described as Ne, Fe, Ti with a splash of Se when presented with the list of functions. When 9/9 does reply to emails, it is one word or one sentence responses. His mannerisms in person are very refined, his tastes very cultured and specific, dainty.
Assuming 9/9 overuses Fe drastically, could this same “muting” effect I observe in small amounts, as I play, be overwhelming to him?
He receives 75 emails a day. If Fe forces the response to be poised and perfect for each response, it becomes impossible to reply.
Thus almost a learning disability/cognitive translation issue-like dysgraphia-except Fe imposed in the opposite direction? Like written stuttering.
Also-more oddly-Fe imposes social distance. Not only is it difficult to reply, it might feel wasteful to spend the precious, extreme efforts required in replying on those who are unworthy of a response. “I like you, however I am really to busy to spend a lot of time on an email response to you right now.”
I cannot change him, however he is a very interesting person puzzle to observe and try and understand. He is very strange compared to normal ENTPs, however I propose the roots of 9/9 may be found in normal functions overused.
So-a hypothesis:
Fe is like a mute button-a filter. When I use Fe it makes me dainty, fastidious, reserved in speech and gesture. I hate to “waste words”. It takes a lot of time to write things.
9/9 self described as Ne, Fe, Ti with a splash of Se when presented with the list of functions. When 9/9 does reply to emails, it is one word or one sentence responses. His mannerisms in person are very refined, his tastes very cultured and specific, dainty.
Assuming 9/9 overuses Fe drastically, could this same “muting” effect I observe in small amounts, as I play, be overwhelming to him?
He receives 75 emails a day. If Fe forces the response to be poised and perfect for each response, it becomes impossible to reply.
Thus almost a learning disability/cognitive translation issue-like dysgraphia-except Fe imposed in the opposite direction? Like written stuttering.
Also-more oddly-Fe imposes social distance. Not only is it difficult to reply, it might feel wasteful to spend the precious, extreme efforts required in replying on those who are unworthy of a response. “I like you, however I am really to busy to spend a lot of time on an email response to you right now.”
Wednesday, November 11, 2009
Fe/Fi and basal cortisol levels
Today I stood in La Jolla and let the ocean wash over my legs. The ocean is the most beautiful thing ever.
Now I have sand all in my feet and my pants are wet, but meh, I dont think anybody notices.
Much better today than the past few days.
Fe is like swimming in a calm bath of honey. Fi is like a cutting pain internally or a beautiful mist that washes up and out.
Fe suppresses Fi. This suprised me. Fe also suppresses inflammation internally. My body stops aching. I suspect that basal cortisol levels are to blame.
However I am too Fe happy now to write this up.
Now I have sand all in my feet and my pants are wet, but meh, I dont think anybody notices.
Much better today than the past few days.
Fe is like swimming in a calm bath of honey. Fi is like a cutting pain internally or a beautiful mist that washes up and out.
Fe suppresses Fi. This suprised me. Fe also suppresses inflammation internally. My body stops aching. I suspect that basal cortisol levels are to blame.
However I am too Fe happy now to write this up.
Tuesday, November 10, 2009
I am made up of two pieces. One is Fi induced pain and suffering. The other is Te induced responsibility and self criticism.
Yesterday was so beautiful. I can remember why, from yesterday, that it would be impolite to burden others with my pain. It was so beautiful to feel no internal pain and instead be able to focus on the happiness and beauty of the other. However today that went away.
Back to the normal pain. Today I wish I could die. I wish I could walk into the ocean and swim until my arms give out and then just drown. Just to give up and not feel the internal pain anymore would be so beautiful. The ocean would surround me and hold me and I would inhale it and feel pain, but it would be self limiting. This pain does not seem to end.
I of course wouldn't do that. It is just a whim as it will gone tomorrow. I have my kids to be responsible for and bills to pay and things to check off my list. Te always wins in the end.
How I wish I either did not exist or was someone else.
Yesterday was so beautiful. I can remember why, from yesterday, that it would be impolite to burden others with my pain. It was so beautiful to feel no internal pain and instead be able to focus on the happiness and beauty of the other. However today that went away.
Back to the normal pain. Today I wish I could die. I wish I could walk into the ocean and swim until my arms give out and then just drown. Just to give up and not feel the internal pain anymore would be so beautiful. The ocean would surround me and hold me and I would inhale it and feel pain, but it would be self limiting. This pain does not seem to end.
I of course wouldn't do that. It is just a whim as it will gone tomorrow. I have my kids to be responsible for and bills to pay and things to check off my list. Te always wins in the end.
How I wish I either did not exist or was someone else.
Monday, November 09, 2009
an ENFP vs an ENTP interview
We recently interviewed two potentials for my bosses' position-Director of Marketing. The first was an ENFP, with a well developed tert Te, but very polished and well rounded Fi. The other was an ENTP with a lot of Ne and not so much Fe, who went on several Ti walks and left us all behind.
I loved the ENFP as she was very good, but we also need more Fi, not more tert Fe.
I could have been great friends with the ENTP though as she was very clever and actually looked to be a lot of fun.
Other people's thoughts:
the ESFJ and ISFJ both liked the ENFP better but felt she was wearing a mask and questioned what she would be like on a bad day. In other words would she be mean. They could sense the tertiary Te.
The ENTP really disliked the ENFP. First he said she was weak. I couldnt get a clear answer for what he meant by this. Then he mumbled that she would be controlling. He uses tons of tertiary Fe, and what I have seen seems to hold true-tert Fe and tert Te do not go well together.
The ESTP-her boss-only looked at her resume and the fact that she had the exactly right background to push one product into one marketplace. data, data, data, and a total lack of understanding of the big picture.
The INFJ actually said "I feel for her" with respect to the entp, as I think she was picking up on subtle Fe vibes of distress that I was missing. However she agreed the ENFP was the better choice given her well roundedness.
Just interesting to observe.
I loved the ENFP as she was very good, but we also need more Fi, not more tert Fe.
I could have been great friends with the ENTP though as she was very clever and actually looked to be a lot of fun.
Other people's thoughts:
the ESFJ and ISFJ both liked the ENFP better but felt she was wearing a mask and questioned what she would be like on a bad day. In other words would she be mean. They could sense the tertiary Te.
The ENTP really disliked the ENFP. First he said she was weak. I couldnt get a clear answer for what he meant by this. Then he mumbled that she would be controlling. He uses tons of tertiary Fe, and what I have seen seems to hold true-tert Fe and tert Te do not go well together.
The ESTP-her boss-only looked at her resume and the fact that she had the exactly right background to push one product into one marketplace. data, data, data, and a total lack of understanding of the big picture.
The INFJ actually said "I feel for her" with respect to the entp, as I think she was picking up on subtle Fe vibes of distress that I was missing. However she agreed the ENFP was the better choice given her well roundedness.
Just interesting to observe.
Pain, Fe vs Fi and cortisol
Today I am sick. I have a sore throat. This morning it was really hurting. Then mentally I tried to tell myself the pain was not real.
Within 30 s the discomfort decreased from a 10 to a 1. At the same time I noticed that my left shoulder, stopped hurting. I have bursitis and anytime I bend over it flares with agony-not quite icepick style but bang your finger with a hammer style.
I combined the thought that the pain was not real with the idea of supressing the Fi mist. Quell everything and observe external.
I am in an Fe stoned ass zone right now. None of my joints hurt, I am so calm, my motions are so much more coordinated. My toddler broke a glass on the floor. Instead of feeling frustration, I felt very calm and just cleaned it up and told him it was okay.
Twice before in my life have I felt this way. Once when taking cortisol, and once when on valium just after having an endoscopy.
Today's theory:
Fi and Fe are just a sliding continuum regulated by cortisol levels. The more cortisol produced, the calmer you feel, the less pain you feel due to less inflammation overall, the more energy you have to play social masking games-or is this actually the norm???? However cortisol depresses the immune system, thus hypothetically an Fe user will get sick more-thus from an evolutionary perspective die off. If depressed it will be of the chronic type that responds well to SSRIs and is thought to be due to overproduction of cortisol.
An Fi user produces less cortisol, and has a much more reactive, stronger immune system. This allows them to survive illness better evolutionarily. However you would expect more chronic pain/inflammation due to nonspecific immune activity, more true autoimmune disease. Also pain will be felt more accutely. The same injury really will hurt an Fi user more than an Fe user. Other trends-Fi users will be more likely to exhibit chronic fatigue syndrome. Mentally Fi users will rely upon adrenlin rushes to help counter the lack of cortisol-Te rage/frustration. They will also be prone to anxiety more. They will feel emotional pain more strongly and without the calming, controlling effects of cortisol, will externalize.
Qs:
1) why does Fi love feel so different from Fe love?
2) what about Te users vs Ti users and tert Fe vs Fi?
Within 30 s the discomfort decreased from a 10 to a 1. At the same time I noticed that my left shoulder, stopped hurting. I have bursitis and anytime I bend over it flares with agony-not quite icepick style but bang your finger with a hammer style.
I combined the thought that the pain was not real with the idea of supressing the Fi mist. Quell everything and observe external.
I am in an Fe stoned ass zone right now. None of my joints hurt, I am so calm, my motions are so much more coordinated. My toddler broke a glass on the floor. Instead of feeling frustration, I felt very calm and just cleaned it up and told him it was okay.
Twice before in my life have I felt this way. Once when taking cortisol, and once when on valium just after having an endoscopy.
Today's theory:
Fi and Fe are just a sliding continuum regulated by cortisol levels. The more cortisol produced, the calmer you feel, the less pain you feel due to less inflammation overall, the more energy you have to play social masking games-or is this actually the norm???? However cortisol depresses the immune system, thus hypothetically an Fe user will get sick more-thus from an evolutionary perspective die off. If depressed it will be of the chronic type that responds well to SSRIs and is thought to be due to overproduction of cortisol.
An Fi user produces less cortisol, and has a much more reactive, stronger immune system. This allows them to survive illness better evolutionarily. However you would expect more chronic pain/inflammation due to nonspecific immune activity, more true autoimmune disease. Also pain will be felt more accutely. The same injury really will hurt an Fi user more than an Fe user. Other trends-Fi users will be more likely to exhibit chronic fatigue syndrome. Mentally Fi users will rely upon adrenlin rushes to help counter the lack of cortisol-Te rage/frustration. They will also be prone to anxiety more. They will feel emotional pain more strongly and without the calming, controlling effects of cortisol, will externalize.
Qs:
1) why does Fi love feel so different from Fe love?
2) what about Te users vs Ti users and tert Fe vs Fi?
Sunday, November 08, 2009
The list of three
Three things I would like to do before I die:
1. Think an original thought never thought before
2. Go to a place where no person has ever been before
3. Develop a theory of social/organizational dynamics based upon MBTI, NPL, and Jungian functional theory
1. Think an original thought never thought before
2. Go to a place where no person has ever been before
3. Develop a theory of social/organizational dynamics based upon MBTI, NPL, and Jungian functional theory
Saturday, November 07, 2009
Saturday Poem
Patterns scurry in front of my eyes.
Frothing ocean's breeze
little oak tress leaves numbered in the billions
lover's hair in delicate spiral patterns
skin, textural delight, under my tongue.
Frothing ocean's breeze
little oak tress leaves numbered in the billions
lover's hair in delicate spiral patterns
skin, textural delight, under my tongue.
Societal stability and the Jungian judging functions
I summarized all of my thoughts concerning societal stability and jungian judging functions. I was going to email them to my two favorite ENTPs. The I asked myself why? Why do I need to show others my ideas? I enjoy the debate and discussion and enjoy new ideas but there is more than that. I think I seek their affirmation of my ideas, which they will always give as they do not approach social interactions in a critical fashion. I share with them as I have an emotional connection and trust them.
However this ends up being selfish of me. I burden them with having to emotional affirm me via my ideas which is rather impolite.
Thus I am going to collect them here. Here feels like a real diary given the millions of blogs that wonder by here. I can post, and thus post to myself. Meditation of a sort.
The ideas are skeletal. They need much work.
Four Judging functions:
Te-seeks to control external environment via domination, imposition of structure, efficiency. Decisions made by Te will be straightforward, blunt, even rude, often accompanied by hand movements to "box" the ideas in. If you violate the social heirchy via not submitting, punishment will be intense, dominating, even physical intimidation or confrontation until you back down or resolution is reached. A representative example would be the leader of the pack. Best deployed to control or structure groups or organizations in a strict hierchal way.
Fe- seeks to control external environment using defined set of social rules/customs/social reciprocal bonds. "I scratch your back, you scratch mine". If you violate the social rule set the punishment is exclusion. Initially it will be temporary, later permanent. These social reciprocal bonds are invisible, tenuous in nature and based upon the trust of mutual reciprococity. Primary or secondary Fe users are bound by these obligations and must abide as they form an internal code of ethics. Tertiary Fe users are not bound by the same level of mandatory reciprococity and can use the Fe social networks to leverage others and play social games. The rule seems to be that everyone is equal-if anyone tries to rise above that they get knocked back to an equal status. A representative example would be the stereotypical way women behave to each other. Best deployed to control organizations is a loose, network, diplomatic way.
Ti-an internal judgment, not about control. Based upon internally derived logical system-a Ti ruleset. A problem is observed, data is internalized-, ie the person mirrors the problem their mind, a Ti ruleset is applied to the data, the logical answer is derived, then the answer is externalized. Often a Ti user will have issues verbalizing the thought path leading to the conclusion. When they do, it will be very detailed, with precision being of utmost importance. Logical inconsistancies are not tolerated. The Ti ruleset is based upon logical facts the Ti users accumulates over a lifetime by learning and experimentation.
Fi-an internal judgment, not about control. Based upon an internally derived value system-an Fi ruleset. A problem is observed, data (the emotive state of the other person) is internalized, the data/emotive state is mirrored in the Fi user's emotions, the value derived logical answer is derived, then the answer is externalized. Often an Fi user will have issue verbalizing the emotive path that led to he decision. It will just be "right". The Fi ruleset is based upon value based observations the Fi user accumulates over a lifetime. For instance if they see an action, they observe it to cause pain to another, they then mirror/feel that pain themselves-thus the rule "action A is bad" has been formed.
However this ends up being selfish of me. I burden them with having to emotional affirm me via my ideas which is rather impolite.
Thus I am going to collect them here. Here feels like a real diary given the millions of blogs that wonder by here. I can post, and thus post to myself. Meditation of a sort.
The ideas are skeletal. They need much work.
Four Judging functions:
Te-seeks to control external environment via domination, imposition of structure, efficiency. Decisions made by Te will be straightforward, blunt, even rude, often accompanied by hand movements to "box" the ideas in. If you violate the social heirchy via not submitting, punishment will be intense, dominating, even physical intimidation or confrontation until you back down or resolution is reached. A representative example would be the leader of the pack. Best deployed to control or structure groups or organizations in a strict hierchal way.
Fe- seeks to control external environment using defined set of social rules/customs/social reciprocal bonds. "I scratch your back, you scratch mine". If you violate the social rule set the punishment is exclusion. Initially it will be temporary, later permanent. These social reciprocal bonds are invisible, tenuous in nature and based upon the trust of mutual reciprococity. Primary or secondary Fe users are bound by these obligations and must abide as they form an internal code of ethics. Tertiary Fe users are not bound by the same level of mandatory reciprococity and can use the Fe social networks to leverage others and play social games. The rule seems to be that everyone is equal-if anyone tries to rise above that they get knocked back to an equal status. A representative example would be the stereotypical way women behave to each other. Best deployed to control organizations is a loose, network, diplomatic way.
Ti-an internal judgment, not about control. Based upon internally derived logical system-a Ti ruleset. A problem is observed, data is internalized-, ie the person mirrors the problem their mind, a Ti ruleset is applied to the data, the logical answer is derived, then the answer is externalized. Often a Ti user will have issues verbalizing the thought path leading to the conclusion. When they do, it will be very detailed, with precision being of utmost importance. Logical inconsistancies are not tolerated. The Ti ruleset is based upon logical facts the Ti users accumulates over a lifetime by learning and experimentation.
Fi-an internal judgment, not about control. Based upon an internally derived value system-an Fi ruleset. A problem is observed, data (the emotive state of the other person) is internalized, the data/emotive state is mirrored in the Fi user's emotions, the value derived logical answer is derived, then the answer is externalized. Often an Fi user will have issue verbalizing the emotive path that led to he decision. It will just be "right". The Fi ruleset is based upon value based observations the Fi user accumulates over a lifetime. For instance if they see an action, they observe it to cause pain to another, they then mirror/feel that pain themselves-thus the rule "action A is bad" has been formed.
Thursday, November 05, 2009
Funny things the baby said:
He learned to play pretend this week.
He said the toothbrushes were snakes, the blanket was a gate. He pretends we are different people-I am his brother or the dog is his friend allan at the skatepark. He also told his dad at line in the supermarket "I think we are missing something..." then pointed at the candy on the rack.
No more complaining is my new rule. Made much easier by the fact that folks are making good choices at work.
purple, pleasent, petulant tears
lips plush, kisses soft and moist.
my soul breathes easy.
He learned to play pretend this week.
He said the toothbrushes were snakes, the blanket was a gate. He pretends we are different people-I am his brother or the dog is his friend allan at the skatepark. He also told his dad at line in the supermarket "I think we are missing something..." then pointed at the candy on the rack.
No more complaining is my new rule. Made much easier by the fact that folks are making good choices at work.
purple, pleasent, petulant tears
lips plush, kisses soft and moist.
my soul breathes easy.
Tuesday, November 03, 2009
writing allows me to express and tap into Fi more cleanly than anything else. Saying goodbye is hard but even more fun is setting the goal of never returning and then sticking to it.
Te loves goals and loves achieving them. If I miss the goal I stuck in a cycle of never ending failure. By hitting the goal, I satisfy the never ending beast on my back.
To love, to be loved, where do those puzzle pieces lie. I dont know those answers. I go against the grain of wood, get stuck in the rip currents of the way life is lived. Even for those like me, I end up a bump in the smooth laminate flooring. It's okay, as I am not upset, just accepting.
I love my baby.
I love my gangly teenager.
I love my strange elusive entps.
I love my petulant istjs.
I love my strong, silent, sweet INTJs.
I can stand alone and I am okay with that. I love from afar.
Te loves goals and loves achieving them. If I miss the goal I stuck in a cycle of never ending failure. By hitting the goal, I satisfy the never ending beast on my back.
To love, to be loved, where do those puzzle pieces lie. I dont know those answers. I go against the grain of wood, get stuck in the rip currents of the way life is lived. Even for those like me, I end up a bump in the smooth laminate flooring. It's okay, as I am not upset, just accepting.
I love my baby.
I love my gangly teenager.
I love my strange elusive entps.
I love my petulant istjs.
I love my strong, silent, sweet INTJs.
I can stand alone and I am okay with that. I love from afar.
new blog home
This will be my new blog home. My old posts were scattered across the old place but I'd rather think alone for awhile here.
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